Conversation on Gravity

 

The full Youtube clip can be viewed here

Akoben Adinkrahene
I can believe that they are telling teachers to teach this to children! I'm shocked that not one of them asked about repulsion as a stabilizing force in the universe . Gravity is an attraction power as far as I know it does not repel. Therefor all of the planet would have to do (at some point) the same thing the balls did, which is end up in the middle.

If not, this would mean that inertia (which is the reasoning use to state that the planets would not slow down) is as strong as  (if not stronger than) gravity. Truth is gravity is one of the weakest forces and can by no means hold the universe together when it can't even pull the note off my refrigerator. However the same force (magnetic attraction) that holds the note on the refrigerator (which is more that 10,000 times stronger) also has the repulsive power equal to it's attraction power. Which one seems the best to do the job? Think about that!

Asinine Rhetoric
You pretty much debunked yourself just now. Gravity is a relatively weak force and, like you said, inertia and momentum can easily overcome it. This means you don't need a repulsive force, as inertia itself is more than enough. The only reason these marbles are falling into the center is because of friction. Friction from rolling on that sheet actually decelerates the marbles, so if friction didn't exist, they would keep rolling or "orbiting". Friction does not exist for the planets in our solar system.
Magnetism is not sufficient in explaining what we call gravity. It only works practically on ferro-magnetic metals, otherwise you need massive amounts of energy to get the same effect as gravity.
It seems to me like gravity is still the best for the job. Not to mention there's massive amounts of mathematical proof and data to support it, yet none of that exists for magnetism in this context.

Akoben Adinkrahene
Asinine Rhetoric : Maybe you should read what you just typed and extend your thoughts on the subject. If the only forces that we are considering is gravity, inertia and momentum and if momentum and inertia is enough to propel a body pass the point of gravity's pull (on said body) then what is bringing the body back into a stable orbit? Because as you posited the force of momentum and inertia have push said body pass the pull of gravity. Now let's look at this demonstration of magnetic attraction and repulsion and see if it brings anything to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvfDzRLsiU


(One does not need letters behind their name to think!)
I almost forgot to address your statement about magnetism. What does the planet and a magnet have in common? Well, our planet has a north and a south pole and it just so happens that a magnet has a north and south pole also. How do we know this? One way is that we can use a compass and what does a compass work off of? Magnetism!One more thing you can make math do what ever you want it to do, it's all in the interpretation!

Added later...

If we were to talk about the unified field theory we talk of 3 forces 1. the weak force 2. the strong force 3.the elector-magnetic force. Which of the 3 is the weak force? In case you didn't know it is gravity! So the weakest force of the 3 is the force that holds the universe together is that what you are telling me?

Akoben Adinkrahene The "demonstration" you provided was a little comical. That is a toy review video, not a scientific demonstration. The effect in that demonstration is not stable at all. As soon as you lift the magnets off the table, they will stick together. Also, the Earth and Sun system is nothing like that. They are orbiting around their center of mass, meaning the Sun is also orbiting the Earth slightly.

Akoben Adinkrahene  No you can't make math "do what ever you want it to". That statement just shows you have no idea how math works. It's completely black and white. Your interpretation has nothing to do with solid mathematical proof. If you lack mathematical proof, then your point of view is useless. These models exist because we need to predict things accurately, not because they sound fancy. (Edit) Why are you deleting your comments? Do you not take the time to review them before you post?

Akoben Adinkrahene  Are you not going to explain what you believe? It seems odd you deleted your other comment and edited your second to be something different. That's a pretty dishonest thing to do, and shows you aren't really able to have a mature discussion. Honestly I feel bad for you. This subject is so simple that I was hoping I could help you avoid embarrassing yourself. Seems that didn't go too well.

(he is upset that I combined two post!

(should I get another reply it will be posted here.)

Asinine Rhetoric
No you can't make math "do what ever you want it to". That statement just shows you have no idea how math works. It's completely black and white. Your interpretation has nothing to do with solid mathematical proof. If you lack mathematical proof, then your point of view is useless. These models exist because we need to predict things accurately, not because they sound fancy. (Edit) Why are you deleting your comments? Do you not take the time to review them before you post?
 
Akoben Adinkrahene If math need no interpretation tell me what is being expressed in this statement (  r=2Gm/c^2  ) where "^" is to the power of (in this case 2)
And if you do get it right can you say for a fact that anyone who see it will also get it right?
(geneticmemory readers will remember this from the post " Stephen Crothers: The Par­al­lax Effect on Short Hair
 
Asinine Rhetoric

Akoben Adinkrahene  Perhaps you should attempt to educate yourself more on this subject. You seem to be confused as to what forces are present in space and how they interact. It seems silly debating about this considering it's common knowledge we wouldn't stay on Earth if gravity didn't exist, but I guess I'll try to make this easier for you to understand. If you have an object that has a greater inertia than the force of gravity acting on it, then it will fly off into space. Inversely, an object that has a greater force of gravity than it's inertia, it will collide with what it's orbiting. A stable orbit happens when the tangential inertia and the force of gravity are balanced out. Gravity may be considered relatively weak, but it's not useless. It's strength is directly proportional to the mass of an object. So it can easily overcome inertia if the object is very small compared to the body it's orbiting. Such is the case with the Sun and the Earth. The Sun is 109 times more massive than the Earth. (Edit) You linked this video, but deleted your comment for some reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvfDzRLsiU The "demonstration" you provided was a little comical. That is a toy review video, not a scientific demonstration. The effect in that demonstration is not stable at all. As soon as you lift the magnets off the table, they will stick together. Also, the Earth and Sun system is nothing like that. They are orbiting around their center of mass, meaning the Sun is also orbiting the Earth slightly.

(You may notice he asked me to explain what I have said. And I have not said anything that need to be explained he will continue to do this in his statement.) This is his attemp at the Jedi mind trick.

How that work is you try to make one think that you are some kind of expert, then you talk down to them, most importantly don't answer questions.

Akoben Adinkrahene
I hope I'm not talking to someone who is seeing things! Now don't put words in my mouth "if gravity didn't exist" When did I ever say gravity didn't exist? We just don't understand it. And that is not just my opinion. And if we did we would not need propellers to fly.

(editor's note ) After some time thinking I see I made an error. I should have said "gravity dosen't exist" But that would have really confussed things even more.


Quote: "The effect in that demonstration is not stable at all" (demo of magnets above)

Where is the instability. Please explain. To many people like you think they can declare something to be true without giving any explanation of what they are saying. But this is what it has come down to in every part of life people saying things that just are no so. So please explain!

Many people would call Newton's models toys today. But the reason he made those toy was to demonstrate a point of fact, and not to make toys for children.

"They are orbiting around their center of mass, meaning the Sun is also orbiting the Earth slightly."
Please go back and read the question until you understand what the question was.

Here is the best weapon that you have to use on the masses it called parroting and the most used statement is that it is "common knowledge".
It is common knowledge that a dollar bill is money. But how can it be money if it printed without backing? It can't be! But because it's common knowledge (that it is) we have all been robbed and some of the people have even lost their homes because of "common knowledge".

You said "Perhaps you should attempt to educate yourself"

Yes I could have said that to you also if I intended to be rude, but I'm not.

In one statement you say" A stable orbit happens when the tangential inertia and the force of gravity are balanced out."
This is one possibility and has a chance of maybe happening 1 in 10,000,000 times. In the model I have shown it would happen every time. Are you starting to see?

Toys are the best tools for demonstration. What do you think is being used in this demonstration? It's a big toy! everyone there would play with it (experiment with it) if they could. Oh and please forgive the deletion. I can understand how it must be to go to read something that's not there...

(all question he has ask I have replied to above)

Akoben Adinkrahene  It's amusing that you're trying to double down on this asinine notion that math is just up to interpretation. That whole paragraph you wrote about it completely misses the point. If you can't actually read the math, of course you don't know what it says, and you may as well be reading Chinese. That's not really surprising, but the point is, once you understand how it works, it is extremely black and white. If someone interprets "^" as something other than an exponent, then they are wrong. It's that simple. This whole tirade of yours is essentially a desperate attempt to avoid providing mathematical proof for what you believe. The point of mathematical proof is not to confuse people like you that don't understand it. It's main function is to provide a way that a person can actually use the model being presented. If your model doesn't have this, it has no way we can use it, and is therefore useless by definition. "We just don't understand gravity. And that is not just my opinion. And if we did we would not need propellers to fly." We understand gravity multitudes better than whatever it is you're trying to argue for, mainly because you don't have any mathematical proof we can use. Aircraft were invented using our mathematical understanding of gravity. We had to understand how an object fell due to gravity before we were able to counter gravity with aerodynamics. "What do you think is being used in this demonstration? It's a big toy!" It seems you missed the point of this video. It's not a demonstration, it's a simple visualization meant for high school kids. It does not prove anything about how gravity works and doesn't attempt to.

"Oh and please forgive the deletion." That's fine, but I recommend you take the time to actually read your comment before you post them. You might save yourself further embarrassment if you do.

 

Asinine Rhetoric  Point 1. What is amusing is you still are attempting to use that Jedi mind trick where whatever you say we have to believe without question, example or explanation for anything. Again I don't (at this time) know if you are able to read or is it your comprehension? I have already said "I never said math was useless" But you will keep on that vain because you have no where else to go. Your statement " If you can't actually read the math, of course you don't know what it says, and you may as well be reading Chinese" This is truly an asinine reply to the statement that math has to have an interpretation for the masses to understand it. I am trying my best to be polite but the "asinine" (lol) statements you are making is what made me, make the last statement about your comprehension. If I say to you that math has to have an interpretation for the masses to understand, then Only a fool will come back with the statement  "If you can't actually read the math, of course you don't know what it says, and you may as well be reading Chinese." HELLO THE MASSES CAN"T READ THE MATH ! MY POINT! Also I would have to assume that you are one of the masses seeing you have no clue what the equation refer to.
 
Point 2. Please prove that only math  was indeed needed to make the first flight?

The Pinnacles consisted of a gorge with a river flowing through it and unique large boulders created during the ice age on its slopes. The updraft created by the terrain attracted soaring birds. The Wright brothers regularly observed birds there from 1897 to 1899. (Got to wonder why they spend 3 years watching bird when all they had to do was the math.)
ID10T in other words Idiot! Also just because you can over come gravity does not mean you understand it. We overcome gravity with hot air balloons does that mean that the people making hot air balloons understand gravity? I think not.

It does not say the Wright brothers spend many days and night getting the correct math in order to fly the first aircraft. No they watch birds to get the aerodynamics correct. Of cause that was in the days when real people did real experiments to gain knowledge.

Point 3. SAME AS POINT 2

Point 4. This does not alter the fact that Newton used toys to learn more about his craft! And what in your mind was the purpose for the visualization? If not to demonstration a principle!

Point 5. There was nothing I said or did that was embarrassment.  I just happen to have manners, something you seem to be lacking. I only said that because you were bitching about my deleted comment. What I would have said if I did not have manners would be.
"If it was deleted then it was not for you to see. So just move along to the next comment idiot!

I am always amazed how fast people are ready to call others names or make disparaging comments on the internet!

 

Asinine Rhetoric (There are two identical replies there lol. This is what I mean by reading your own comments before you post them. It shows that you don't have a very broad attention span.)

 Asinine Rhetoric If there are two replies then it should be twice as easy  to read and reply too. I can only assume you read it, however I don't see any reply  lol Anything not to reply to the questions and  points that were made. lol what a waste of sperm!
But this is most likely because youtube mixes up the post and I wanted to make sure I got all of your stupid replies so I can post this conversation on my site for all to see what an idiot does when he can't reply to simple questions. As you have done. Have a look. LMAO!

This is how his type replies to Questions!

Just don't reply to it!

As it always happens on youtube people can't seem to have a civil conversation (Myself included). With these people it always comes down to name calling so there is no need to post anymore because I'm not going to get anything like a useful conversation from the one. You may have noticed that he never reply to any question after talking about gravity and Aircraft.


I put this in the story because it has the important comments that Eisenhower made on Academia. And if you view the full video you might find out information we don't learn in school!

    THIS IS WHY I BELIEVE LITTLE OF WHAT CONVENIONAL SCIENCE TELL US CAN'T BE DONE! OR EVEN WHAT THEY SAY HAPPENS IN THE NATURAL WORLD AND SPACE.

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